George you know, a lot of us on this forum know, the whole world knows how deceitful some Civil servants are working behind the scenes.

There is one thing for sure and that is I bet those 8 HD Committee members had relented and gave us 'unrestricted' wear of the medals, the cost both being time consuming and monetarily has been huge to the UK Government. More though is the embarrassment not only to HMG but to Her Majesty The Queen and to a lesser extent The Agong of Malaysia.

All the suits have to do is have a change of heart and we will quietly move back into retirement, these people brought it upon themselves, no one can be seen to carry the can but HMG they are an embarrsasment to their own profession but more so to us Veterans that THEY serve!


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George, John,

This letter still shows up on my daily search through The Star's site to see if any other PJM items have surfaced.

It showed again today, on this link:

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/8/26/focus/15237691&sec=focus

It could be that the links change as items get archived after a period of time.

That happened with another item that I was involved with, research into a Vampire pilot. That link eventually disappeared but I found the item again archived on the All Malaysia Info site.

I'll keep track of this one.

PS: The link works. I have just tested it from this forum and on the RAF Forum.

PPS: Barry, George, John, you should have received copies of the letter direct from the Star's site now. Just in case it does fade away!



Last edited by LaurieB on Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:35 am; edited 1 time in total

LaurieB wrote:

George, John,

This letter still shows up on my daily search through The Star's site to see if any other PJM items have surfaced.

It showed again today, on this link:

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/8/26/focus/15237691&sec=focus

It could be that the links change as items get archived after a period of time.

That happened with another item that I was involved with, research into a Vampire pilot. That link eventually disappeared but I found the item again archived on the All Malaysia Info site.

I'll keep track of this one.

PS: The link works. I have just tested it from this forum and on the RAF Forum.

That might be so Laurie but I do not retract my comments one jot!


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George F wrote:

Thanks Laurie, this is good news, your hands on touch is much appreciated. However like John it dosn't change my views on these suits back in the UK. Now that those two letters were published in two of Malaysia's English read newspapers and the door has been closed for veterans to reply, smells of some sort of diplomatic pressure coming from BHC in KL.

George F

George, John, I share your views on the 'gnomes' in Whitehall.

As you say George, the fact that nothing has been printed since the statement by Moody, despite many letters having been sent in reply, does leave people here with the wrong impression.

You obviously have many contacts in Malaysia Laurie, what are their opinions when you talk to those that might show an interest on the subject.

I always found them a very friendly and polite but I wonder what they think of this snub on this award


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It has taken a while but Barry's letter to the Editor of the 'Star' newspaper has been printed in today's issue. Here's the link:

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/9/22/focus/15503781&sec=focus

Let's see what response that brings.

John, re your last post. As I mentioned previously, the local people that I talk to here cannot understand why the British authorities have behaved in this fashion.

WEll I'm chuffed that this has appeared as I thought the My. Star 'had been got at', obviously not!

The piece from Barry as quoted:

As far as British citizens are concerned, there are no exclusions, no exemptions, from the “no wear” condition.

I can confirm this to be correct according to Ian McCartney MP who is responsible as Minister for Relations with Malaysia, he quotes to me in a letter of 24th August 2006

The Rules governing the accepting and wearing of non-British awards, which form part of Mr Cooper's e-mail to you, apply to all British citizens (as set out in Principle 1 of the Rules), not only those who may work for the sovereign or in other areas of Public Service

So you see guys we as ex servicemen, and now civilians, come into the grouping above BUT everyone in The Civil Service tells us WEAR IT we won't police it. Can you make sense of that, if you can I can't!


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This morning I telephoned Shafie , the brave platoon Sgt, who when I was in the 10th Police Jungle Company and the 4th Police Field Force I had the honour to serve with for several years. Shafie lives in a small Kampong ,a place I visted a couple of times with him when we served together in Johor. He's not into computers/emails ect, and I only telephone him every so often. Although through lack of use over the years , my Malay has now deteriorated, I did managed , after a couple of repeats and laughter,understand that he's read in some Malaysian newspaper about me /us and the PJ M. So at least, some of these PJM reports in the Malaysian press, are not only limted to the towns /cities they are also reaching the Malaysian Kampongs.

LaurieB wrote:

It has taken a while but Barry's letter to the Editor of the 'Star' newspaper has been printed in today's issue. Here's the link:

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/9/22/focus/15503781&sec=focus

Good news, at last the Government and Peoples of Malaysia have been given the real story. Now we want THEM to start writing to the High Commissioner in KL expressing their disgust at the treatment that HM's Government has handed out to their Honourable Pingat Jasa Malaysia.


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Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.

LaurieB wrote:

Have just sent this winging its way through cyberspace for Chris Edge to enjoy with his Whitehall wad and char:

Dear Mr Edge,

Thank you for your reply to my email of 28th August.

I note that you state the heading, "UK civilians free to wear medals", to Mr Moody's letter in the Star newspaper was not part of his (Mr Moody's) letter, but was used by the paper. That may be so. However, the heading, whether it be Mr Moody's or the newspaper's, does accurately reflect the comments made in the letter by Mr Moody; comments which are blatantly wrong and totally misleading.

I note also that you have addressed some of the points in my email but have chosen not to answer others. For instance, I ask where are the rules governing this sort of award laid down? This point was not addressed. Similarly, I ask how did Mr Moody arrive at the word "some" when he stated that "The articles highlight the concerns of some British veterans the exception does not allow the wearing of the medal by British servicemen". Please respond to that point. You and I know that there are a great many veterans incensed by the way that this award has been treated.

As you surmise, I am certainly aware of the Rebuttal Statement, along with an update to that document, sent in by Mr Barry Fleming. I most sincerely hope that these papers will be given due and proper consideration, along with, not only my comments, but also the comments of the many MP's, barristers and other notable people who now support our cause.

I look forward to hearing from you regarding those points still outstanding.

Yours sincerely,

Laurence M Bean

Have just received a reply from Chris Edge to my email above. It reads:

Dear Mr Bean,

Thank you for your e-mail, below. The rules under which the PJM has been considered are the "Rules governing the acceptance and wearing of foreign awards by Citizens of the United Kingdom and Her Overseas Territories". They are in the Library of the House of Commons and have also been sent to several of your colleagues in the fight4 the PJM campaign.

I do not know how Mr Moody arrived at the word "some". I am aware of a large volume of correspondence about this particular subject. I also reiterate what I said in my earlier e-mail: that your comments will be taken into account in the consideration of the points made in the Rebuttal Statement.

Yours sincerely,
Chris Edge
[/i]

LaurieB wrote:

[I do not know how Mr Moody arrived at the word "some". I am aware of a large volume of correspondence about this particular subject. I also reiterate what I said in my earlier e-mail: that your comments will be taken into account in the consideration of the points made in the Rebuttal Statement.

Yours sincerely,
Chris Edge[/i]
[/i]

You will notice Laurie that we all are receiving a bog standard reply, they must be getting desperate, but at least The FCO have acknowledged that DHC Moody uttered those words!


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A point of interest in the email from Edgey Chris when he states the rules apply to British Citizens (or words to that effect).

The Foreign and Commonwealth Orders, Regulations 1969, refer to British Subjects or to be exactly precise Her Majesty's subjects. At that time the Act which changed British nationality from British Subject to British Citizen has not come into being.

This proves that Edgey Chris is referring to the so-called rules which are in fact non-statutory documentary guidelines deposited in the House Library at the end of November, 2005. These have no bearing or legal standing upon British Citizens because they have not been promulgated through our Parliament as per our Democratic Government. Also, this document has changed the status of British Subject to British Citizen without any authority.

The Bill of Rights 1689 states - That the pretended power of suspending the laws, or the execution of laws by regal authority without consent of Parliament is illegal.

Perhaps those who are making such a mess of our country would be strongly advised to pay attention to our Democratic Rights under various laws and of course, the Convention on Human Rights which states we are all equal under the law.

George,

My apologies. I, like yourself and many others, have never recived a proper answer to a proper question from any of the suits or their little helpers. This might just get a reaction.

On today's Bernama website:

http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v3/news.php?id=223004

George F wrote:

LaurieB wrote:

On today's Bernama website:

http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v3/news.php?id=223004

Thanks Laurie,

Dear all dont forget to send this Malaysian News Agency an e/mail
http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v3/email.php

to promote http://www.fight4thepjm.org and our fight for justice to wear the PJM medal, against unchartitable duplicitous civil servants in Whitehall.

George, They wouldn't accept my email on the PJM. Andy.