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I'm being very polite!
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Post I'm being very polite! 
I really mean this when I say I'm being very polite Embarassed

I have had many a written word to and from Politicians and Civil Servants, very few have ever given me a straight forward answer, some have told me downright lies, some really don't know what the hell is going on around them. One thing though I have had 10 apologies from them over the years via The Government Ombudsman.

You (including the FCO and HD committee) can read more here http://splashdown2.tripod.com/id17.html

Since I have been communicating with Barry, George et al I have noticed a change from pleasantries being expressed to one of anger. I'm afraid to tell you all that you can continue 'til the cows come home with the niceties, because on the surface that is how they operate, spin and deceit.

I would love to be proved wrong but shooting from the hip first is the only thing that makes these people sit up and take note, so go give 'em both barrells Wink

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George F wrote:
Read your website John. You deserve another clasp to your GSM for you single campaign against Whitehall

I like your drift. Hows about this for a polite suggestion?

Lets have baseball caps designed with "FIGHT TO WEAR PJM" written on the front and pin the PJM medal on the back so when we pass the Queen at Whitehall on remembrance see sees a huge row of PJM's as she looks after we pass. The media would love it, and what an embarrassment to HRH and her lickspittle bunch of jerks who call themselves the HD committee.it would be.

Or is that to polite for you?


I already have one of those baseball hats with several badges on George, when I receive my PJM I shall wear that on left breast and feel like telling HM and HD where to stick the GSM.

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Post I wanna baseball cap with a peak at the back 
Being a TOG, I've been looking for one of those baseball caps with a peak at the back for years. Where do you buy them? Each time I go into a shop and ask for one, people's eyes tend to roll slowly skywards.

Anyway, I'm with the flow on this. We have to be very positive - angry.


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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George F wrote:
John if we wear the PJM on our left breast at Whitehall we may all end up in the Tower because HRH has not given us permission. Of cource that would be the biggest embarrassing PR stunt ever I can only dream about.

I can see the headlines already. "BEEFEATERS LOCK UP FELLOW VETERANS IN THE TOWER"

But there is no law against wearing it on a base ball cap like an unofficial tin gong. After all HD and HRH have already lowered the PJM medal's status to a trinket by that disgraceful statement.


It would be the greatest honour that HMQEII and her jumped up JACKASSES could ever bestow on me, Bang Cooper up in the Tower and throw away the key, you could all rattle your gongs from Tower Hill to the Thames or as Eliza Doolittle that little ole' Cockney Sparrer once sang 'Woodenit be luvverly' Shocked

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I'm not being nearly as polite as time goes on, this PC shite gets to me, there is only one thing these people know shame them into submission, here is my latest starting at #10 and working down to those bog cleaners purporting to call themselves the HD Committee

PINGAT JASA MALAYSIA


Hi, my name is John Cooper, I’m a veteran of the RAF where I served my Queen and Country, you may have even been in the same place as me at the same time, you could so easily have been waist high in filthy rivers and swamps infested with water snakes and leeches. You might even have heard of soldiers, sailors and airmen that fought a campaign for a Commonwealth country where the Queen was Head of State, that country was Malaya, Singapore and Borneo sometimes collectively known as Malaysia.

You see there were two campaigns that lasted from 1948 through to 1966 with a very short break in between, some of those guys that were sent to do their duty never returned, others returned wounded, a very grateful King of Malaysia its Government and its people have honoured these very people with a medal for freeing its country from Communist backed infiltrators. That was all a very long time ago, in some cases half a lifetime and in some cases a full lifetime.

This medal awarded to the veterans of this campaign was never asked for by us Malay/Borneo vets but was given to us in good faith and as a thank you. Our other cousins the ANZACs together with the Ghurkhas have been awarded this medal too, the latter can not only receive that medal but wear it with pride on suitable occasions, we British on the other hand may receive this medal but must not wear it.

The Honours and Decorations Committee advised the Queen that we are not worthy wearers of the Pingat Jasa, so I am giving notice to you that you are racially discriminating against myself in not allowing me to wear this medal. Now I don’t mind so much being kicked in the bollocks but not when I’m on the ground thank you very much.

So what are your intentions? Do I take you to the Race Relations Committee to get this verdict overturned by a toothless unelected shambolic QUANGO or do you really want to pursue this one to my grave?

Do not push me from pillar to post like you have done so with some of my colleagues as I have been down the road with The Parliamentary Ombudsman previous to this. Straight answers direct from you, no one else, savvy?

Your choice!

John Cooper



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Post Just Cause. 
Great stuff John. I am sending letters to them on the same lines as I feel that discrimination under the Race Relations Act is a good lever to hit them with. I feel we could complaint 'till the coos come hame' but if we have a point to hammer and this point is relevant and legal, then we have a just cause. What they have done is unalwful, unparliamentary, opposed to democracy and free government, and last but not least they cannot tell us civilians what to wear and what not to wear, provided we are not acting criminally. So there you shite hawks stick your rules where the monkey stuck its nuts. You want a fight then come on, I'll leather you with my zimmer and throw my false teeth at you and if that fails I'll set my wife on you.

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Just had this back as an automated reply, this is what we may be up against in doing one big hit

Dear Your title here Cooper

Thank you for your message to the Prime Minister which you sent through the Downing Street website (www.number-10.gov.uk).

We need to confirm that we have your correct details and that the message shown at the bottom of this email is from you.

Click on the link below to confirm your message.

http://www.number-10.gov.uk/Output/page8514.asp?MessageGUID=79872236-EF0A-44D9-AEE1-875D80FA418B

If you did not send this message, please contact the Downing Street web team at mailto:webmaster@pmo.gov.uk.

Once you have confirmed your email, your message will be passed to Downing Street staff to read. Although the PM is unable to answer emails personally, all your messages are read and the PM is given a report on the issues raised, along with a selection of messages.

Thanks,
The Number 10 Web Team


Here is the text we received:


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http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/scotland/your_rights/civil_rights_scotland/taking_action_about_race_discrimination.htm

Although this shows Scotland it also applies to England, Wales, and N Ireland

This item is extracted from the above website

Indirect race discrimination


It is indirect race discrimination to set conditions or requirements for a person to meet which may seem to apply to everyone, but may place people of a particular racial, ethnic or national group at an unfair disadvantage.


There may have been indirect discrimination if:-


people of a particular racial, ethnic or national group are less likely to be able to meet it; and
as a result, people who cannot meet it are placed at a disadvantage; and
it cannot be justified by the person or institution setting it (see below).

There may be indirect discrimination if members of one or more racial, ethnic or national group are less likely to meet it than others. An example would be if an employer insists that candidates for a job should speak faultless English when this is clearly not needed for the type of work. Further examples are banning the wearing of headscarves or insisting on the wearing of skirts at work or school, or an employer insisting that a person has qualifications obtained only in the UK.




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Holy Toledo George...5000 Quid!

At current rate of exchange that comes to $10,069.55 Canadian....that'll MORE than break me even for the International postage costs!!


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...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
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Post Devil's Advocate 
I am not sure that any case for discrimination will prevail. The intention is, I know, to exert pressure but a threat that we cannot carry through will weaken us and our case.

Even if discrimination in respect of the PJM could become a matter to put before the courts (and we have to bear in mind that the Queen is involved because it was she to whom advice was given and it was she who accepted the PJM with those strings attached), a court would need to be satisfied that all non-litigious means had been explored to resolve the dispute. I do not think that they have - we’ve only just started asking specific questions.

I am in the throes of arguing that the PJM recommendation and the withholding of formal permission to wear the PJM arose from confusion about the PJM’s scope and from erroneous briefings to both the Government and the HD Committee. I am doing this through my MP. This "there's been a cock-up" approach provides the various parties with an exit strategy they can live with.

Until we have specific answers to the questions we have raised, I do not think we have any meaningful way open to us to seek some form of redress.

I am equally uncomfortable with the Racial Equality issue - we have not yet got the answers we need to make anything like that stick.

If we do not receive a satisfactory response to our legitimate questions and concerns then all bets (together with all gloves) are off and it’s down the High Street I go and a visit to the Citizens Advice Bureau...

PS This is just a personal view. We must each explore those avenues we wish - as individuals.


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Post Re: Devil's Advocate 
BarryF wrote:
I am not sure that any case for discrimination will prevail. The intention is, I know, to exert pressure but a threat that we cannot carry through will weaken us and our case.

Even if discrimination in respect of the PJM could become a matter to put before the courts (and we have to bear in mind that the Queen is involved because it was she to whom advice was given and it was she who accepted the PJM with those strings attached), a court would need to be satisfied that all non-litigious means had been explored to resolve the dispute. I do not think that they have - we’ve only just started asking specific questions.

I am in the throes of arguing that the PJM recommendation and the withholding of formal permission to wear the PJM arose from confusion about the PJM’s scope and from erroneous briefings to both the Government and the HD Committee. I am doing this through my MP.
This "there's been a cock-up" approach provides the various parties with an exit strategy they can live with.

Until we have specific answers to the questions we have raised, I do not think we have any meaningful way open to us to seek some form of redress.

I am equally uncomfortable with the Racial Equality issue - we have not yet got the answers we need to make anything like that stick.

If we do not receive a satisfactory response to our legitimate questions and concerns then all bets (together with all gloves) are off and it’s down the High Street I go and a visit to the Citizens Advice Bureau...

PS This is just a personal view. We must each explore those avenues we wish - as individuals.


No problem there Barry, I have already sounded out the CRE and am awaiting a reply. the ones that set the rules are answerable to those rules, if they say you cannot discriminate on a Nation basis where it is discriminatory to allow ANZACs but not British to wear the PJM then they have to be brought to account. Niceties going back and forth could take years to resolve this is how these departments thrive.

It is very difficulty to reverse a Government Decision, and if you don't know about the Chinook Disaster from 1994 then read this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/407448.stm "The inquiry findings were categorised as "gross negligence" on the part of the two pilots of the helicopter by senior officers who counter-signed the inquiry report"
which eventually became a political issue.


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Great idea John and I agree with your sentiments, when it comes to a scrap, we have all already proved that we are up to it.
My gut feeling right now is that we ARE getting noticed and questions are being asked. If we carry out a frontal attack I believe the government, civil servants, HD committee will dig in and drag the whole thing out for years. Like all of you I want to see all the vets with the PJM on their chest "OFFICIALLY" sooner rather than later and we can do it.
I agree the race realations angle is brilliant but lets keep it in reserve, think tacticaly, every action has to have a fall back position...right?... this is ours.

Remember the SBS motto......"Not by strength, by guile"

Bob

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Post Re Devils Advocate. 
The Race Relations Act is an act of parliament and a law of our country. It is not a civil matter to make a complaint of discrimination under our laws. This was thrown into the arena for discussion and argument, which it has certainly produced and those who have been responsible for what I would call 'discrimination against us veterans' because they, the same people ie The Queen, has given other instructions on the same subject to Oz and Kiwi veterans. I realise that The Queen signed the recommendations refusing us permission to wear the PJM but she was advised to do so by the HD committee. The Queen is above the law but the HD Committee and Ian Pearson are not. All avenues must be explored and this is just one of them. I cannot see the people responsible for this shameful rule rolling over and playing dead. They are immersed in their little elitist cocoon and will take some shifting. It is not dirty tricks or illegal to use the law of our land which has been put there to protect us all and if it is discrimatory to tell a girl she cannot choose to wear a skirt at school, or a person who wears a headscarf because of her ethnic origins not to do so, then it is damm well wrong to single out British veterans and tell them they cannot wear a certain medal. Don't forget chaps other British veterans have been given permission to wear other foreign awards so it looks like we are being singled out for special treatment. We are not being disloyal to Her Majesty the Queen, the people who advised her are.
I agree with Barry so far as it relates to compensayshun. I do not think there is a good case for that but who knows. The mere mention of them facing discimination allegations with possible large payments from the public coffers might get them moving. After all, they only have to cancel the non-wearing rule and everyone is off the hook.

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bob_bryant wrote:
Great idea John and I agree with your sentiments, when it comes to a scrap, we have all already proved that we are up to it.
My gut feeling right now is that we ARE getting noticed and questions are being asked. If we carry out a frontal attack I believe the government, civil servants, HD committee will dig in and drag the whole thing out for years. Like all of you I want to see all the vets with the PJM on their chest "OFFICIALLY" sooner rather than later and we can do it.
I agree the race realations angle is brilliant but lets keep it in reserve, think tacticaly, every action has to have a fall back position...right?... this is ours.

Remember the SBS motto......"Not by strength, by guile"

Bob


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Post For Bob 
Sorry I meant to reply to Bob but got it slightly wrong - my inexperience with technology is showing.
Yes, Bob we also have a great army unit whose motto is 'Who Dares Wins'.

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