How about this one gents:

Ceremonial Secretariat
35 Great Smith Street
London
SW1P 3BQ
Telephone: 020 7276 2777
Fax: 020 7276 2766
E-mail: ceremonial@cabinet-office.x.gsi.gov.uk
Web: www.honours.gov.uk




Email: tony.davies167@ntlworld.com
3 January 2007

I think we already knew about this crap - but it was worth yet another try !! Tony

Ref: FOI246724







Dear .......


Thank you for your e-mail of 7 December 2006 to Denis Brennan. I am replying on his behalf. In the e-mail you asked ‘Under the Freedom of Information Act, I formally request to see a copy of the Document that Her Majesty signed saying we Veterans of the various Malaysian campaigns and "Confrontation", can accept the Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal (PJM) graciously offered by the King of Malaysia, but formal permission to wear will not be granted.’

Your request for information has been handled under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) 2000.

I am writing to confirm that the Cabinet Office has completed its search for the information which you requested and can confirm that the Cabinet Office does hold information falling within the terms of your request.

The information you requested is being withheld under the FOIA. The exemptions that apply to this information are section 37(1)(a) (communications with Her Majesty, with other members of the Royal Family or with the Royal Household) and section 37(1)(b) (the conferring by the Crown of any honour or dignity).

Section 37(1)(a) and section 37(1)(b) are qualified exemptions and in applying these exemptions we have had to balance the public interest in maintaining the exemption against the public interest in disclosing the information.

In favour of disclosure there is a general public interest in The Royal Family and its communications with Government. In favour of withholding the information there is a strong public interest that communications between officials and The Sovereign should remain confidential to ensure that business can be conducted in a spirit of openness and trust. The existence of section 37(1)(a) and section 37(1)(b) of the FOIA highlights this public interest. 37(1)(b) covers formulation and deliberation of policy in relation to medals and honours, as well as decisions about individual nominees. We consider that it is in the public interest to protect the process of the HD committee, to ensure they continue to receive free and frank advice, and to fully discuss and deliberate medals policy, and this outweighs the public interest in disclosing the material. Failure to maintain the confidentiality of the committee’s work would have a significant and deleterious impact on the quality of policy advice and decision-making, and on the integrity of the system. We believe that on balance the public interest lies in withholding the information.

Notwithstanding the above, you are, I know, fully aware that the decision on the acceptance and wear of the Pingat Jasa Malaysia was approved by Her Majesty. We do not believe that it would be in the public interest to disclose any further information on this aspect of that case.

If you are unhappy with the service you have received in relation to your request or wish to request an internal review, you should write to:

Howell James
Permanent Secretary, Government Communication
70 Whitehall
London
SW1A 2AS

Howell.James@cabinet-office.x.gsi.gov.uk

You should note that the Cabinet Office will not normally accept an application for internal review if it is received more than two months after the date that the reply was issued.

If you are not content with the outcome of the internal review, you have the right to apply directly to the Information Commissioner for a decision. The Information Commissioner can be contacted at:

Information Commissioner’s Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire
SK9 5AF

If you have any queries about this letter, please contact me. Please remember to quote the reference number above in any future communications.

Yours sincerely,



Neena Thandasseri

Policy Officer

Same old Horse Manure packaged up in a New Year, you really cannot believe these people, can you?


_________________
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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Oh, that it certainly is - am I alone in thinking that there is something else on that HD recommendation they simply dare not let us or anyone else see ? I cannot believe that the piece of paper HM signed contained nothing but their recommendations regarding our PJM. Summat else fishy methinks.

John Cooper wrote:

Same old Horse Manure packaged up in a New Year, you really cannot believe these people, can you?

Section 37(1)(b) - conferring BY THE CROWN of any honour or dignity. They keep quoting this exemption but it does not apply to the Pingat Jasa Malaysia which was conferred by the Supreme Head of the Federation of Malaysia and for the British Civil Service to change this is a 'grave discourtesy' to the Supreme Head of the Federation of Malaysia and Civil Serpents have no brief whatsoever on the subject of the Supreme Head of the Federation of Malaysia.

They may believe that they are untouchable but they are heading down a very dangerous and undiplomatic road when they start suggesting that the PJM was conferred by the Crown!!!

Also see www.YourRights.org.uk in connection with the Public Interest Test under the FOI Act. They keep saying it is not in the public interest to divulge the information requested when it is 35,000 British Citizens who want to know 'who said we could not wear our medal'. I think now this question may have been answered by Neena Thandasseri who says that the acceptance and wear of the Pingat Jasa Malaysia was approved by Her Majesty. Does this really imply that it was our Sovereign who refused us permission to wear the PJM with the people who advised her to do this now squirming and struggling to get themselves out of the big hole they have dug themselves into through lack of intelligence and sheer ignorance. I think so.

Kentsboro wrote:

(JohnF) – (She quoted you).

In the e-mail you asked ‘Under the Freedom of Information Act, I formally request to see a copy of the Document that Her Majesty signed saying we Veterans of the various Malaysian campaigns and "Confrontation", can accept the Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal (PJM) graciously offered by the King of Malaysia, but formal permission to wear will not be granted.’

(She replied to your question)
I am writing to confirm that the Cabinet Office has completed its search for the information which you requested and can confirm that the Cabinet Office does hold information falling within the terms of your request.

But you didn’t ask for “the information.”

You asked to “see a copy of the Document that Her Majesty signed”

This isn’t the first time that we have seen a letter coming out of that office stating that, “the Cabinet Office has completed its search for the information which you requested.”

They’re hiding something. I can smell it from here and I’m down-under.

There isn't such a document in existence, that the Queen signed.

Hence this continuing, sickening, obfuscation from that office.

Its a load of bovine excreta. As I said above, I can smell it from here.


_________________
Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.

As mcdangle writes above, the Award was given by the Agong, Government and Peoples of Malaysia.

HM The Queen did NOT confer the PJM award on the 35,000 PJM Veterans.


_________________
Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.

Kentsboro,
Your letter is word for word the same as mine.
Seeing this document is not exempt under the FOI Act only the discussion that lead to it.
Put your complaint in

Paul Alders wrote:

Kentsboro,
Your letter is word for word the same as mine.
Seeing this document is not exempt under the FOI Act only the discussion that lead to it.
Put your complaint in

My letter from the same person is exactly the same.


_________________
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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Yes exactly the same.

What I want to know, is, why do the Civil Serpents maintain that it was conferred by Her Majesty.

That one has got me totally foxed.

Round the buggers up and I'll have then sectioned in straight jackets in Rampton.

I think my signature is still valid.

Still totally foxed

Arthur

Arthur
I worked at Rampton for eight years before I came to Oz in 78 and I reckon some of the inmates had more credibility than the suits. At least they knew what they were, what they had done and at least some tried to rectify it. I think the penal settlement at Van Dieman's land is more appropriate, until the days of their natural life.


_________________
All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing

Concerning the letter I received from Neena Thandasseri - posted on 3rd January and shown above, I have written a reply to that letter. It may contain many facts she is well aware of, but I genuinely believe that harrowing these people does continue to maintain the momentum. They will get fed up with it before we do. I have shown the letter below because I don't know how to place attachments on the site. Please excuse me.

********************************************************************************************************

Neena Thandasseri 4th January 2006
Ceremonial Secretariat
35 Great Smith Street
London
SW1P 3BQ
Your Ref: FOI246724

Dear Neena Thandasseri


Rebuttal of your letter dated 3rd January 2006


Thank you for your reply to my letter. I very much regret that I must take issue with you on one or two of the facts mentioned therein. But before I do so, I would ask that you consider a brief résumé of our situation; you may then perhaps, understand why there is such continuing strong feeling regarding this issue.

I, as a veteran of the Malayan Emergency and Confrontation, am not asking for an audience with Her Majesty, nor indeed anything remotely resembling that type of special treatment. All I ask for are answers to two specific questions. Rather simplistically put, these questions are (1) “Why, and on what grounds, did the HD committee decide that we cannot be granted permission to wear the PJM on formal occasions, and then pass this totally erroneous advice to Her Majesty?”, and (2) “Why have British Veterans been denied the right to wear the PJM, when Commonwealth veterans – alongside whom we fought – have been granted such permission?” Surely you can understand that I find it very hard indeed to comprehend or accept that Her Majesty would sign any such document which clearly states this outrageous anomaly. Before you put pen to paper, I am well aware that these Commonwealth countries to whom I refer, now have their own regulations regarding such issues. I consider that an irrelevance, and the reason will become clear in the following paragraph.

I am also well aware of the contents of the Freedom of Information Act 2000, and note with interest the rather dismissive and presumptive manner in which only a very limited amount of information or consideration is given regarding a particularly important matter; the granting of “Honours or Dignity”. As you quite correctly state, Section 37(1)(b) clearly does appear irrefutable, but I would draw your attention, to the precise wording:

Section 37(1)(b) – the conferring by the Crown of any honour or dignity.

The relevance of this particular subsection, is not, in this case, quite as relevant as it initially appears. The wording states quite clearly that the Exemption refers to “ – the conferring BY THE CROWN of any honour or dignity.”

It is not my intention to enter into a discussion about semantics with you, but this particular “honour or dignity” was most definitely not conferred by the Crown, it was graciously conferred by The Supreme Head of the Federation of Malaysia, and for civil servants to attempt to alter this fact, or to imply that it is otherwise, is surely a grave and shameful discourtesy to the Supreme Head of the Federation of Malaysia and to those wonderful people who still remember the remaining 35,000 of us, and all those brave people who died, with such a generous and quite frankly humbling gesture.

May I suggest that this wholly unnecessarily unpleasant issue is beginning to look as if it may, because of the massive amount of public support we enjoy, at home and abroad, regrettably lead us in the direction of a dangerous and most unbecoming undiplomatic road should the HD committee and unelected civil servants dare by their very action, continue to even remotely imply that the PJM was in fact conferred by the Crown.

I am fully aware that most of the points I mention in this letter have been frequently brought to your and your department’s attention by many of my colleagues, but I feel you should know that letters such as this, emails and the like, will continue to flow with gathering momentum, until we are given satisfactory answers. The rules and regulations laid down for the distribution, awarding, receiving and wearing of medals have proved surprisingly flexible in the past, and I see no reason, therefore, for slavishly following this outdated set of rules and regulations simply on the whim of the HD committee.

I would not have the audacity to presume that I speak for all 35,000 remaining veterans, but because I have dared “borrow” some of their words, and seen the comments and amazing support we now enjoy, then I feel no sense of unease in using the word “we” on a few occasions. You are aware of the fact, that we were advised by a senior civil servant that we could wear the PJM if we so decided, and that the matter would not be policed; indeed you yourself have quoted this in previous correspondences with my colleagues. This statement is rather condescending and glib in its own right, but to subsequently add that doing so would “…constitute a grave discourtesy to the Sovereign”, is an outrageous, supercilious and arrogant statement that I find particularly offensive. I served Her Majesty for almost 30 years after Confrontation, and like all soldiers and veterans have an undisputable loyalty to the Crown, and for anyone to have the audacity to imply otherwise is positively obscene. Lobbying Members of Parliament, harrowing civil servants, emailing MPs and urging them to sign several EDMs already raised in support of our campaign, contacting the Press, even opening a comprehensive web site (www.fight4thepjm.org), is not the usual way for veterans to conduct themselves; but we have been given no option whatsoever, and people in London should be in no doubt at all that we have been deeply offended by the disgusting comments and the patronizing and offhanded treatment we have received to date. Be absolutely assured - we remain totally and indefatigably committed to our campaign.

Thank you for taking the time to read this letter, and I look forward to your reply.

Yours sincerely

A J Davies

Tony

That is one hell of a letter and thank you for sending it to Neena and sharing its contents with us all, there is only one drawback and that is you have asked two relevant questions, with my experience in dealing with these humanoids that is one too many for them to reply to.

I am going to have to nominate this letter as 'The letter of the month award!' Brilliant


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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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John Cooper wrote:

I am going to have to nominate this letter as 'The letter of the month award!' Brilliant

And John, I will go even further, and nominate it for the Letter of the Year Award!

Well, so far.

No slur intended.


_________________
Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.

Quote:

I have shown the letter below because I don't know how to place attachments on the site. Please excuse me.

Tony....when you are capable of penning a letter of such quality, you do not require to make any apology for being unable to post attachments....we of the Fight4 care naught if you should decide to post such a communication by chiselling it in granite....just so long as you do continue to author and send such missives...Having read it twice, let me say that your logic is impeccable and your command of phrase enviable.

More power to your (figurative) elbow!


_________________
...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.

Knockout letter Kentsborro.

Keep sticking it to them... one of them will eventually twig that they have screwed the pooch and get a guilty conscience... who knows... it might just be infectious... but then we can always live in hope.


Yours Aye

Arthur