Redcapfred wrote:

Gentlemen, I feel that unless you are to hold the Queen partly responsible for this farce, then you should not blame the government either. Civil Servants, who for all we know are all Tories, advise Her Majesty on medals and honours, and is it then SHE who decides, NOT Tony Blair or any of his government !

Once the Queen has made that decision, then even though the government has the power to over-rule her it is highly unlikely they would rush to do so, they are just as loyal to her as you or I.

So, please, accept, the blame, no-matter how untasty we may think it is, rests soley with HM the Queen.

Fred

Fred

Your statement is supposition regarding HM The Queen (Suppose She did/didn't) and so too The Civil Service (They could be [and possibly are] Diddymen). We don't even know for sure whether The Queen saw our Petition presented to Sonia Bonici by Barry, Gerry and Paul and we do not know (for sure) that she did/did not sign off the document.

We cannot obtain this information under The Freedom of Information Act 2000.

I would just like to add that we do have the support of The Conservative Party and UKIP and The SNP..................


_________________
--------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
---------------------------------------------------------------

Redcapfred wrote:

Gentlemen, I feel that unless you are to hold the Queen partly responsible for this farce, then you should not blame the government either. Civil Servants, who for all we know are all Tories, advise Her Majesty on medals and honours, and is it then SHE who decides, NOT Tony Blair or any of his government !

Once the Queen has made that decision, then even though the government has the power to over-rule her it is highly unlikely they would rush to do so, they are just as loyal to her as you or I.

So, please, accept, the blame, no-matter how untasty we may think it is, rests soley with HM the Queen.

Fred

Fred, the people I 'blame' are both the civil servants and HMG who have contrived to bend rules to suit their own purposes. They are dishonourable and lacking in integrity (both personal views, natch!).

After a year of pushing, having previously tried very hard to hide the fact the suits eventually coughed to the fact that they only asked the Queen to approve Acceptance of the PJM. In their recommendation they made no mention to Her of permission to wear or of denying permission to wear the PJM. The Queen approved what was in front of her, i.e. acceptance, and so as far as I am concerned, she has supported us as far as she was allowed by the devious civil servants.

And so it is only a handful of civil servants who are trying to stop you wearing a PJM with honour. That's why I 'blame' them.

In 1968 the Queen decreed that British private citizens could wear a Foreign medal that she had approved for acceptance. So, again, the Queen has done her bit..

I have no doubt that the civil servants will come up with some tosh about "She didn't mean you!", but as far as I am concerned what an Admiral told me in February last year holds true. He said that the Queen would not agree to withhold permission for men and women to wear their PJM. At the time, I said I needed to corroborate that. Not that I did not trust what he said (and many others 'in the know' have said since), but I felt that the issue should be clear and the situation should be in the public domain to avoid any difficulties.

Now it is ... and it is.

Thanks for your ongoing support.

Barry

PS And, yes I do hold the government responsible. Mrs Beckett was sent our Petition (for permission for British citizens to wear the PJM) by the Queen for consideration. At no time has that Petition ever been referred to or the Queen's request that it be considered (confirmed in a letter to me) ever been addressed. Why? Because, to address Her request, would lead to an endorsement of our right to wear the PJM. So Mrs B and her entourage of manipulative civil servants simply binned it and pretended that the Petition was not there - their way of imposing their will above that of parliament.

PPS I would also like to make it clear that it is the Conservative Party which is committed (in writing) to reviewing Foreign Decorations Rules and the PJM.


_________________
BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

YIP LONDON GAZETTE SEZ IT FOR ME TOO! THE REST IS DOWN TO THE SUITS.H.M. WELL SHE'S AN INSTITUTION,AND LONG MAY SHE REIGN,AFTER ALL THESE YEARS,WITH HER HUSBAND AND SON'S ,HAVING SERVED AND GRANDSON'S IN SERVICE, HEAD OF COMMONWEALTH ETC ETC,I CANNOT FOR THE LIFE OF ME BELIEVE THE QUEEN WOULD WITHOLD THAT PERMISSION,THE CONNECTION OF THE SERVICES TO THE CROWN JUST RUNS TOO DEEP,SHE'S HELD IN RESPECT AND ADMIRATION FOR HER SENSE OF DUTY,AND RESPECTS OUR SERVICE PEOPLE IN RETURN,NAH ITS THE SUITS,ANYTHING ELSE,WELL IT WOULD JUST DO ME HEAD IN, I'VE MET THIS LADY TWICE,ONCE IN PORT ST LOUIS MAURITIUS,THEN OUT OF SKULL ,IN MAHE,I HAVE WAVED MY MATELOTS CAP AT HER,AS WE STEAMED CLOSE ALONGSIDE AS ESCORT TO ROYAL YACHT,AND ONCE SHE AND THE DUKE ,WAVED TO MY MISSUS AND ME ALONE,SERIOUS,WE WERE WALKING OUR WESTIE DOGS,ALONG A ROAD ON PORTLAND,WHEN A LIMO CAME DOWN THE ROAD AFTER LEAVING DOCKYARD FROM THE INCLINE ROAD,NO ONE ELSE ABOUT,POINTED TO OUR DOGS SMILED AT US BOTH AND GAVE US A WAVE,MAGIC,WE JUST WAVED BACK FRANTICALLY,BY THE WAY MA'AM PRIMROSE DOES SUIT YOU

BarryF wrote:

Mrs Beckett was sent our Petition (for permission for British citizens to wear the PJM) by the Queen for consideration. At no time has that Petition ever been referred to or the Queen's request that it be considered (confirmed in a letter to me) ever been addressed.

It would seem to me that the Brits need to get a policy in place which would solve this problem.

All petitions placed before HM that are then forwrded to a Minister for consideration, should be replied to by that minister, within x number of days and the result of that consideration be placed before HM for her to see what the outcome was. In this way HM can then have a further say in the matter.

I can see the suits putting their hands up for this idea already.


_________________
Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.

I agree with most of what everyone is saying but I do not agree that the present government had a hand in it, individual ministers, but not the whole government. If this matter had been taken before the whole government I think we would have had a different result on the non-wearing. I am not a supporter of this government but they are being blamed when in fact it is only a couple of Ministers who are at fault.

Also those who are blaming The Queen are feeling hurt that our Sovereign seems to have abandoned us to Civil Servants who have attempted to cheat us out of the right to wear the PJM. We have that right as stated by Her Majesty the Queen in 1968 and they are bound to be aware of this. The bureauprats also say that in recent years they have been making the rules on acceptance and wear of foreign and Commonwealth awards and medals. Someone has to tell them that they do not have this power, possibly with Crown servants, but definitely not with British Civilians.

I personally feel that Her Majesty could have done a bit more to help us by sorting out these suits and making them bow and scrape to Royal reason and truth. I live in hope that she does not disappoint us in the end.

I ask myself did HM the Queen actually know of all these underhanded moves by members of her Government.Some how I dont think so!!
I do know which way the tower is its over here.


_________________
Hold the line steady boys.

Am I alone with this one?

There has been a deafening silence from the [/i]'enemy' since the article in the London Gazette was pointed out to them.
The item is irrefutable as far I'm concerned; they haven't usually make comments on other things we have pointed out to them anyway. Any thoughts? Tony.

Smudger wrote:

I ask myself did HM the Queen actually know of all these underhanded moves by members of her Government.Some how I dont think so!!
I do know which way the tower is its over here.

Smudger,

Agreed. I have said from the start that I do not believe the Queen agreed to the non-wear rule. Do you really think that our Sovereign would, in this day and age, agree to isolate British veterans by not allowing them to wear the PJM whilst giving Royal Assent to Australian and New Zealand veterans to wear, I don't think so.

Kentsboro wrote:

Am I alone with this one?

There has been a deafening silence from the [/i]'enemy' since the article in the London Gazette was pointed out to them.
The item is irrefutable as far I'm concerned; they haven't usually make comments on other things we have pointed out to them anyway. Any thoughts? Tony.

Tony

There is nothing to add from the suits, they have told us this, so we have HMQ's permission and they cannot now come back to us, Finito! There is a tremendous amount of 'behind the scenes activity' going on by The F4 team and others in checking and double checking, so keep posting everyone.


_________________
--------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
---------------------------------------------------------------

The PJM section on the veterans agency has disappeared.

http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk/medals/medals.html

lo_rre wrote:

The PJM section on the veterans agency has disappeared.

http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk/medals/medals.html

Something we said, I hope!

I wonder what it will say when it returns. It won't be good news, of that I am sure. Those vindictive suits don't like their lies and dishonour to be questionned.


_________________
BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

First time I knew the PJM had anything to do with the UK Honours system.

http://www.honours.gov.uk/news/pjm_statement.aspx

Is this another one of the cabinet office boo boo's ?

I thought the PJM was part of the Malaysia Honours System[/i]

Do you think they have read the London Gazette entry.Should we send them a copy of it ?How are they going to wriggle out of this !


_________________
Regards Aye.Jon Windust

""



Last edited by StanW on Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:59 am; edited 1 time in total

In answer to redcap fred, it is a fact that we have got more real support from Conservatives than any other political party, both Henry Bellingham and Peter Bottomley have been in touch with me and they share our disgust, both are placing questions in the House.

John