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MB_Veteran
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 82
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But who put the request to the HD committee?
Last edited by MB_Veteran on Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:58 pm |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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Redcapfred wrote:
Fred,
Regarding that last sentence about us not being eligible because it is our Crown Service status at the time of service and not now that is relevant. Yet again the suits have misled a Minister. The actual words used by those formulating the policy and who also drafted the London Gazette Notice in 1968 are:
“Crown servants who have retired may not take advantage of the new policy in regard to awards conferred upon them during their official life time.” My PJM was not conferred on me during my official lifetime. It wasn't even thought of in 1966.
In addition, do you remember what Brennan (who is ultimately responsible for misleading everyone) said in his 'full and final' statement when wriggling out of the Dual Nationality issue? He confirmed that it was one's current status tyhat mattered and so those with Dual nationality should follow the rules of the country where they now reside.
He can't have it both ways.
Actually, he's messed up and so doesn't have it either way.
Barry
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:54 pm |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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Redcapfred wrote:By the way this is the latest I have received
Fred,
I think your MP has been misled. It may be worthwhile asking him to obtain the FCO's definition of 'confer'.
Regards,
Barry
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:05 pm |
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GLOman
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 668
Location: Northamptonshire
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WEARING OF PJM FOR LIMITED PERIOD
I received this letter this morning.
1) as we thought, a face saving exercise for the UKHC Malaysia and the Cabinet Office, MOD and FCO Gang.
2) Indeed it IS "without precedence and wholly exceptional" in that the only time, apparently, it has been used is to save face and then maintain their illegal 'Accept but not Wear'.
Poorly trained Civil Servants? It is quite obvious that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office Staff have NO IDEA how to reply to correspondence; Remember DEAR MR SHAH TO A MEMBER OF THE JOHORE ROYAL FAIMLY? Now I, "ME", am the lady's YOURS EVER.
I think it is without a doubt complete ignorance of the conventions of dealing with correspondence rather than an expression of endearment. I cannot imagine any of us in fight4thepjm campaign would ever be regarded as 'endearing' by the Whitehall gang - can you?
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Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:50 am |
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mcdangle
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1027
Location: Scotland
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FCO
Gloman,
'Yours ever' conjures up quite an exciting time for future correspondence and possible meets.
I note her name is Mason-Mahon and thought, any relation to the old Scottish family of 'Poch-Mahone'?
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Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:20 am |
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'Jock' Fenton
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1222
Location: Ontario, Canada
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GLOman wrote;
Quote:I received this letter this morning.
GLOman....while I fully agree with your criticisms of this amateurish (almost juvenile?) response to your query, it occurs to me that official admission that the policy change is indeed "without precedence and wholly exceptional" may prove to be of significance at a later date.....Don't destroy the original copy pal, I'm sure Barry would like to have access to that for the HQ files!
_________________ ...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
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Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:40 am |
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Redcapfred
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 243
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Barry, I agree with what you say, this, I thing is where I differ with the HD Committee, they insist that as we were in the service of the Crown when the medal was EARNED we do not qualify under the LG statement, where I believe that as we were NOT in the service of the Crown when the medal was CONFERRED, we DO !
It is by using that arguement, about when the medal was earned, that they seem able to convince some MP's that they are correct in saying we do not qualify under the LG statement.
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Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:46 pm |
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mcdangle
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1027
Location: Scotland
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Redcapfred wrote:Barry, I agree with what you say, this, I thing is where I differ with the HD Committee, they insist that as we were in the service of the Crown when the medal was EARNED we do not qualify under the LG statement, where I believe that as we were NOT in the service of the Crown when the medal was CONFERRED, we DO !
It is by using that arguement, about when the medal was earned, that they seem able to convince some MP's that they are correct in saying we do not qualify under the LG statement.
Redcapfred,
You are, of course, one hundred percent correct. This HD Committee interpretation has come out and has been made up by them when they realised that we had put them on the spot by finding the London Gazette entry. Nowhere previously does it mention that the acceptance or wear of a foreign award is based on your conditions at the time you became eligible for it - they have made this up and are lying again. The Foreign Office files state that it is when the foreign award is conferred by HM the Queen.
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Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:58 pm |
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Lofty
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Anglesey N. Wales.
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The P.I.T.A. Medal
[/list][/url]
Hi Chaps, Just found this on Heritage Medals website. Thought Barry F. might like to award it to a qualifying person in the uncivil service. Regards, Lofty.
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Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:23 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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Terrific Lofty!
PITA we in the RAF used to have a Bum of the Month Award
But this one is very apt
_________________ --------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:49 pm |
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GLOman
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 668
Location: Northamptonshire
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PITA Medals
Nice one Lofty, but I like redcapfred's medal ribbon better, although, in terms of 'brown nosing' this medal ribbon is not inappapropiate.
I don't know if Fred's medal is being produced commercially?
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Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:15 pm |
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roger spencer
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 41
Location: Costa Calida Spain
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Hi Barry
I am sure that you are aware of the six pages that i have attached to this email... Guess where I found it.. On a civil service web site that led me to the cabinet office and then on to the UK honours system. My problem is that having read 6 pages of the usual diatribe that is the norm from the suits, I was amazed to see that the Queens permission for the PJM to be worn for Merdeka Day celebrations in Malaysia was on this letter. Is this a new letter? Did we have a copy? I then read it again and quess what, NO MENTION OF THE LONDON GAZETTE ENTRY AT ALL! Why not? Are they still insisting that it does not apply to us ..... If so you would imagine that they would have reiterated it again. By the way The last paragraph says:
The Cabinet Office,Foreign andCommonwealth Officeand the Ministry of Defece as the main departments involved in the PJM case have provided a full statement on the PJM and have no further comment to make.
I wonder if they think we have all gone home like bad boys!!!!.....................SOME HOPE!
Best regards Roger Spencer Sunny Spain
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Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:44 pm |
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roger spencer
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 41
Location: Costa Calida Spain
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Sorry Finger trouble...... try this
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Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:47 pm |
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roger spencer
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 41
Location: Costa Calida Spain
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Sorry to mess you about it keeps telling me it is the wrong file type will put it in the post to you if you give me an address
roger spencer
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Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:57 pm |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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roger spencer wrote: it keeps telling me it is the wrong file type will put it in the post to you if you give me an address
roger spencer
Roger,
Only images in jpg format can be uploaded. So a scan would work.
Can you attach the document to an email and send it to me at barry@fight4thepjm.org? I'll then upload it for you. Let me know if you can't attach it to an email and I'll send my snail mail addy.
Thanks,
Barry
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:03 am |
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