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Last edited by StanW on Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total

GLOman wrote:

There are two quotes by MOD spokesmen

Hmmm! Perhaps someone could ask for the 'spokesmans' name, under the FoI Act of course?


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Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.

Jock,

What a beautiful example of alliteration!

Proud on yer!

David

phredd, I think the gentleman above is simply someone demonstrating how to uphold the "integrity of the British honours system"!


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Veni vidi vinci

GLOman wrote:

Finally, does anybody think that an MOD spokesmen, knowing that he will be quoted in the media, will really give his name although, as John says, it would be useful (and honest)
David

But nevertheless, one might anticipate that, among the presentations of the New Year's Honours List, will be one made to a Senior Civil Servant...

perhaps from the MoD......?

...."for Seasoned, Spontaneous and Skilful Stonewalling, with special emphasis on Professional, Proficient and Persistently Pertinacious Prevarication in the course of his/her lucratively remunerated duties".


...Nominations anyone???


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...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.

The spokesman said that they did not want to copy the Americans, who wear chest fulls of medals

Well I wonder who this can be ??? .
A chest full of medals and not a PJM in sight



Phredd

John,

Your post 1819 of 10 Nov 07. There are two quotes by MOD spokesmen (where's the PC gone?).

First: A Ministry of Defence spokesman said yesterday there had been no recent ruling instead there is a longstanding rule, he said, that comes from the honours and decorations committee which answers directly to the sovereign rather than a government department. My comment: We, the HD, make, break, amend, implement retrospectively and the Queen does as she is told and signs our recommendation(s) ( which we add to with Depattmental Rules after she has signed) and then incorporate in our final decision before the Parliamentary Statements. Leaving out the vital information that government departments provide the Chair of the HD and members; Cabinet Office, FCO, MOD DS Sec, and recently, the Queen's private Secretary and other members from Honours and Ceremonial offices of government - how's that for a carve up! NO independent chairman.

Secondly: The MOD spokesmen said its a longstanding principle. You are not given permission to wear two medals from the same period of service. Medals are supposed to be special and significant. It is more of a procedural ruling than the law not to wear these medals. The veterans should not wear these second medals at official engagements although it is not policed. They are foreign medals and not British ones and they should not wear it.

The spokesman said that they did not want to copy the Americans, who wear chest fulls of medals.

Perhaps the FCO should whisper in MOD spokesmen's ears that it is hardly politic to criticise, and make derisory remarks, about the Americans for something that they wish to do!

It is more of a procedural.......! So what happened to the 1969 Regulations, 2005 Regulations and Part C (anti PJM part) of the regulations deposited in the House of Commons Library?

Do you think that they are becoming like the "woosle" bird which flies in ever decreasing circles and finally disappears ...!

Finally, does anybody think that an MOD spokesmen, knowing that he will be quoted in the media, will really give his name although, as John says, it would be useful (and honest)!

Regards

David

mcdangle wrote:

The MOD Blog states 'inter alia' - one of procedure rather than a legal ruling.

Hi Andy,

I wonder where the MoD DIN of Jan 2006 fits into the MoD thinking. You know, the Instruction about about not wearing medals not conferred with the Queen's permission to wear.

Errr ... does that mean that all tri-service Defence Instructions and Notices from the MoD can be interpreted at the discretion of the personnel to whom it may (or may not) relate? Think of all those 252's that were issued (and punishments handed out) without the force of 'law' ....

Barry


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

The MOD Blog states 'inter alia' - one of procedure rather than a legal ruling.

Looks like the MOD are know agreeing with the fight4thepjm group because we have told them for nearly two years that any order/rule/instruction not to wear the PJM is illegal.

It is now 'a procedure'. Previously it was 1. a long standing rule. 2. a long standing principle. 3. to protect the integrity of the honours system 4. to prevent proliferation of foreign awards etc etc. When, in a Parliamentary Democracy, can the citizens be prohibitted from anything by a procedure.

But now it is not a legal ruling so any restraints placed upon British citizens ie. you do not have permission to wear the PJM, means nothing whatsoever, and any rule or order is not legal. Rejoice folks, they have just admitted it.

The MOD are in a hole and should stop digging, mind you the Prime Minister would possibly say 'I'll look into it'.

""



Last edited by StanW on Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:26 am; edited 1 time in total

GLOman wrote:

John,

I think you'll find a quote in the Guardian item quoted in the MOD Oracle from an MoD Spokesperson!

David

There are several errors in this report David, if this is the one from the MoD Oracle website you are referring to then I cannot see that there is quote/unquote a direct source from the Ministry of Defence, if there is one and with a name attached even better!

Thousands of British war veterans are to snub protocol at Sunday's Remembrance Day service by wearing medals awarded by the King of Malaysia, Sultan Mizan Zainal Abidin, and his government.

The Ministry of Defence yesterday confirmed that the veterans should not wear the Pinsat Jasa Malaysia medals they have just received in recognition of their service during the anti-communist Malayan Emergency between 1948 and 1960 and the Malaysian-Indonesian conflict in the 1960s over the future of Borneo



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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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GLOman wrote:

John,
I think you'll find a quote in the Guardian item quoted in the MOD Oracle from an MoD Spokesperson!
David

Right on GLOman!.....and anyone who wishes to see how decisively that 'quote' has been publicly rebuffed by Fight4....should access the pdf. version at this link.....and while you have it open... read all of it!...it's a most succinct and accurate summation of our campaign and case.

http://www.fight4thepjm.org/documents/MoD_Oracle_Guardian_Rebuttal_091107_full.pdf

Don't be shy to promulgate it in your lobbying efforts boys![url][/url]


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...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.

Stan, me old mate.

Time to get our Pete, Ro5, out of his canoe. He'll be polishing his bugle ready for tomorrow methinks but I'm sure you can rouse him if anyone can. These blogs involve the Andrew....sorry, the navy. He's had the 'ump too long don't you think?

MB


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Mike Barton

John,

I think you'll find a quote in the Guardian item quoted in the MOD Oracle from an MoD Spokesperson!

David

Here's something that has just occurred to me (round of applause to acknowledge my ability to have a thought)! The MoD are repeatedly being reported as saying "they will not be permitted to wear the PJM on Remembrance Parades". But the MoD do not organize these. They are all arranged, at local or national, level by the British Legion. Those of you attending the Cenotaph tomorrow look at your tickets. They clearly state at the top "The Royal British Legion" and nowhere is the MoD mentioned. Now call me old fashioned, but if I am invited to a party I will abide by the wishes of my host. I will certainly take no notice of my host's neighbour who tries to influence the party. We have seen the sheer audacity of Whitehall in saying that you peasants may wear your baubles for a three week period on someone else's Sovereign soil because we say you can, and now they try to say that although they are not organising the Remembrance events (ans that includes tonight's Festival at the Albert Hall), they still think (although a rather inappropriate term I feel) that they can dictate what we wear.
GerryL


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Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)