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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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Re: Contradictions.
mcdangle wrote:Again I say it is time our Parliament grasped the nettle and put paid to all this absolute nonsense.
Amen to that, Andy.
You have made many telling points here ... they have to start listening!
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:52 am |
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'Jock' Fenton
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1222
Location: Ontario, Canada
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The HD Committee, we are told, was established to provide HM with 'expert' independent advice free from political influence....It's not the work of much genius to quantify the 'expert' quality of the HD Committee's advice when one compares decisions they have made and vainly attempts to rationalize the apparently limitless flexibility of the 'rules' they invoke to validate the process.
As for being free from political influence...We are advised in writing by William Chapman, the Secretary for Appointments at 10 Downing Street - who represents the Prime Minister on the HD Committee. Mr Chapman is joined on that august body by the most senior civil servant from the three most important government Departments.
That letter explains that the Committee 'considers the views of Ministers' (which would include the Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary, the Defence Secretary, the Home Secretary, as well as other offices such as the Cabinet Office). But we are also told the Committee is apolitical!
I freely confess that I am not 'the sharpest knife in the drawer' so can someone gently explain to me, in words of one syllable, exactly how that works????
_________________ ...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.
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Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:54 am |
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GLOman
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 668
Location: Northamptonshire
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Jock,
Yes, apolitical! "Although we undoubtedly continue to work for Ministers, we often have to *use Ministers(I know no better word) in order to achieve Minister's objectives" What???????????????!! (i.e. work to our own agenda!)
"Having considered it in such detail, carefully weighing up the arguments for and against, I am told - having read, I assume, the correspondence from the Veterans Minister and my Rt Hon friend the Memeber for Makerfield - that the committee does not plan to reconsider the matter and that Ministers do not plan to overule the committee's advice to the Queen. ...........but I shall say something in a moment that might worry it [the HD Committee] a little" - Dr Kim Howells 11 Dec 07 - .............."The HD committee's plans will ultimately be determined by decisions of Parliament". Do you remember the phrase "The committee's members, however, were not sufficiently exercised by that correspondence to change their minds"?
I suggest that they are apolitical, or rather have their own unassailable (so they think) agenda over Awards and Decorations matters, in that those who remain prisoners of their Civil Servants (GB,Des B and Meg M et al) will obey their Civil Servants (HD Cttee) commands, while the free thinking MPs, especially Ministers, within their remit, all well known to us, will do their best to thwart the best efforts of the HD cttee. Committee abreviated to cttee, I hope, in terms of how long it will remain in power.
Regards
David
PS: With their use of bafflegab, even "Plato" would have been confused; it would have been "all Greek to him"!!
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Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:53 pm |
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John Feltham
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 764
Location: Townsville, North Queensland
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Re: Contradictions.
mcdangle wrote: Are they so really unfit for purpose'.
.
Yes, but they don't know it yet.
But they will - eventually.
_________________ Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.
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Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:16 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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I again wrote to The Cabinet Office wth a copy to The Information Commissioner asking to confirm that in addition to there not being a Queens signature that there was/was not The Queen's Initials appended to any document barring Veterans in the UK from wearing the PJM, I have just received this today from The ICO...................
Dear Mr Cooper
I am in receipt of your recent emails regarding your complaint against the Cabinet Office.
You should now have received a letter from Mr Michael Pigott at the Cabinet Office confirming that you have been supplied with all the information it holds regarding your request and that there is no separate document that bears HM The Queen’s signature.
Having fully considered your complaint the Information Commissioner is satisfied that the Cabinet Office has now disclosed all the information falling within the scope of your request and that no separate documentation bearing HM The Queen’s signature or initials are held. In light of this the Information Commissioner does not intend to take any further action regarding your complaint.
If I can be of any further assistance then please do not hesitate to contact me.
Yours sincerely
Paul Warbrick
Complaints Officer
Direct Dial: 01625 545302
_________________ --------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:51 pm |
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mcdangle
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1027
Location: Scotland
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JC,
Looks like the Lie Factory is in full production with ample jobs for everyone.
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Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:45 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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mcdangle wrote:JC,
Looks like the Lie Factory is in full production with ample jobs for everyone.
....and soon to be redressed McD!
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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:46 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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If any member of the forum has a letter or email originating from The MoD, The Cabinet Office, The Foreign & Commonwealth Office or even their MP that states that Her Majesty signed a document approving the acceptance, but barring the wearing of the PJM will you please send me a Private Message in the first instance
Thanks in advance......
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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Fri May 02, 2008 6:48 am |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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A friend and ex colleague from 1958 in Singers received this letter 45 years ago, it took 4 years to get permission! Same old tripe 45 years on but in this instance note how the typewritten letter is out of synchronisation with the rest of the type. There must have been many medals issued on a 'nod and wink' by 'The Queen'
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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Fri May 02, 2008 8:56 pm |
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mcdangle
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1027
Location: Scotland
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John,
Yes, the rules are quite clear that anyone who has been given HM the Queen's permission to accept a foreign award should be notified IN WRITING by HM's Private Secretary. I have written four times to HM's Private Secretary asking if we are to be given a letter detailing the award of the PJM and whether or not it is restricted or unrestricted permission to wear. All my letters have been ignored.
This letter only goes to prove that the system was in operation before the PJM was awarded and that a new system was devised by the HD Committee solely for the PJM in contravention of all the rules and long standing principles which they talk about.
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Fri May 02, 2008 11:16 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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John Cooper wrote:My letter to Sir Gus has been posted. I have hand written this letter and marked both the envelope and the letter Private & Confidential so let us see if there is a reply this also relates to the above correspondence with The FCO/CO/ICO
5 weeks down the line zilch in reply, I will give them another few days, anyone else had the 'cold shouder treatment'??
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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Wed May 07, 2008 7:17 am |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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More of the same here, boy have these people something to hide, you bet your sweet bippy they have!
_________________ --------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:31 am |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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The Information Commissioner has forced the hand of The Cabinet Office to release this document iinto the public domain, it has taken me two years to get this far!! Other documents have not and will not be release under Section 37 of the act. If something this simple is so secret and confidential what else are the Cabinet Office withholding
Can I remind everyone that it has been clearly stated to me that this document is Crown Copyright, I reproduce it exactly as it was forwarded to me from the Cabinet Office yesterday
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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:49 am |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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I had this through from HMG today, no change there then!
http://www.hmg.gov.uk/epetition-responses/petition-view.aspx?epref=householdfoi
_________________ --------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:55 am |
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Observer_1938
Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 272
Location: Tasmania-Australia
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John Cooper wrote:I had this through from HMG today, no change there then!
http://www.hmg.gov.uk/epetition-responses/petition-view.aspx?epref=householdfoi
Just reinforcing the status quo........"Yes Minister or "Yes Prime Minister"
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Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:03 am |
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