On April 23rd (St George's Day) at 1630h a 3 man deputation representing the interests of the Fight4thePJM campaign were in attendance at Westminster for a 'face to face' with Derek Twigg (Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Defence and Minister for Veterans)....this meeting was painstakingly organized, over several months, by exchanges of letters and telephone conversations and thanks to the dogged (some would say 'maniacal') persistence of Paul Alders, until finally Mr Twigg consented.

A 'Fight4' select sub-committee, comprised of Barry Fleming, Paul Alders and his MP, Geoffrey Robinson, laid before Mr Twigg the concerns of the Association membership, requesting that he (Mr Twigg) in his role as Minister for Veterans, be active in support of veterans interests, regarding the wearing of the PJM in particular and in the interests of improved transparency of future Honours and Decorations deliberations and decisions, in general...The Fight4 team harboured no illusions that this meeting would, in itself, bring dramatic change in the official posture towards the PJM, considering it, rather, as just another step towards convincing Westminster policy makers of the justification of our case and of our undiminished and continuing determination to proceed, in whatever direction circumstances may provide us best opportunity.

Since I was not personally in attendance at this meeting any interpretation of what transpired there, that I might offer, would lack objectivity. I shall therefore leave it to my friends Barry and Paul to provide their first hand perspective and hereby solicit their report(s).


_________________
...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.

Jock, I know that Barry and Paul have put a great deal of time and effort into this meeting on our behalf so I wish to be the first to thank them both irrespective of the result. Without men such as these Britain as a nation would be much the poorer, thank you both.

John
Doffing his cap

Jock

Great stuff in thanking Paul, Barry and Geoffrey Robinson MP for grasping the nettle with The Rt Hon Derek Twigg MP in having a face to face with The Veterans Minister, all on St. George's Day too.

Well done all......


_________________
--------------------------------------------------------------
HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
---------------------------------------------------------------

And I would like to second that, or is it third

Well done for even getting a meeting. Eventually they may realise that we are all here for the duration.

Many thanks guys


_________________
Pingat Kami - Hak Kami
651 Signal Troop,
Semengo Camp,
Kuching.

Herewith the full Press Release regarding the meeting we had with the Veterans Minister.

(Please wait for page 1 to load ... the image it contains slows down the process!)

In PDF format for you to download and disseminate:

http://www.fight4thepjm.org/documents/Press_Release_240408.pdf

In JPG format:















Last edited by BarryF on Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:15 am; edited 2 times in total
_________________
BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

Thank you Barry...for publishing this Press release and for the report of the meeeting with Minister Twigg.

.....any and all members who have any Press Editorial contact might avail themselves of this opportunity to forward a .pdf copy of the aforementioned Press release for publication.....No point in hiding our light under a bushel eh???


_________________
...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.

Barry and Paul,

Your admonition to not read too much into this meeting is sensble. However the impossible has been achieved in so far that contact has been made with the Man himself!

I think this a great achievement considering the efforts made by Derek Twigg's Civil Servants, great and small, in stopping all our communications from getting through to Derek Twigg; he may well wonder after this meeting why such efforts were made to stop these communications - I can think of one reason which might have been thought of as being in need of secrecy; however since cat was let out of the bag in the Palace, the need for secrecy has surely evaporated. We may never officially know of course, but once the promised processes are started, including Sir Gus O'Donnell, the end result may be more than just helpful. We can of course 'only sweat it out' for the time being.

Anyway, well done youse two!

Regards

David

Oh well; I hope I've done the right thing. I have downloaded and diseminated - I have sent a copy of the Press Release to Andrew Perkins of the MOD Oracle.

I've had an acknowledgement, I shall now wait and see. Well, it is a press release!

Regards,

David

Please be advised that Don Touhig has confimed that he will be engaging in a debate in Parliament on his 'Ten Minute Rule Bill on the subject of making the Committee on the Grant of Honours, Decorations and Medals accountable to Parliament'....This debate is scheduled for May 21st (exact time of day not yet known)....but watch this space.....


To forestall obvious questions....herewith as extracted from Wikipedia:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Ten Minute Rule, also known as Standing Order No. 23, is a procedure in the British Parliament for the introduction of Private Member's Bills in addition to the 20 per session normally permissible.

Any MP may introduce a bill under the Ten Minute Rule, although in practice it is only used by backbenchers. To qualify to introduce a bill under the Rule, the MP in question must be the first through the door to the Public Bill Office on the Tuesday or Wednesday morning fifteen working days (three weeks) prior to the date they wish to introduce their bill. Due to the popularity of the Rule and the difficulty in launching a Private Members Bill by other means, MPs have been known to sleep outside the Public Bill Office in order to guarantee a slot.

After question time (around 12:30pm) on most Tuesdays and Wednesdays, the introduction of bills under the Ten Minute Rule is heard. Whichever MP has reserved the slot may present their bill and is entitled to speak for 10 minutes to convince the house of its merit. After the ten minutes have passed, another MP may speak for a further 10 minutes to oppose the bill. The Speaker then calls a voice vote, and then a division if he believes the bill may have the support of the house.

If the bill is supported by the house, it is added to the register of parliamentary business, and is scheduled along with the other Private Members Bills for a second reading at which it is published as a white paper. The vast majority of Ten Minute Rule bills are not supported by the house, and are dropped immediately. Note that since the first reading of a normal Private Members Bill is a formality, by securing the support of the house on a Ten Minute Rule bill, the MP in question has merely secured it a status equal to that of the 20 normal Private Members Bills.

Since the Government usually opposes Ten Minute Rule bills, it is extremely rare for them to become law. Most Ten Minute Rule introductions are used to stimulate publicity for a cause, especially as the debate follows the media-popular question time, or to gauge the opinion of the house on an issue which may later be introduced in another bill.

A famous bill introduced under the Ten Minute Rule was the Military Action Against Iraq (Parliamentary Approval) Bill in 1999, which provoked a denial of royal approval for its progression to a second reading.


_________________
...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.

If your MP has signed an EDM supporting the PJM campaign please contact him/her and ask them to support Don Touhig’s 10 minute rule debate.
Thank you

Once again,my heartfelt thanks to all of the committee for their unstinting work on behalf of thePJMers.I myself appreciate what you are doing for us.THANK YOU

Regds Ray

The email has just gone off to Sally Keeble my local MP. I am certain that if Sally is in the House on that Date and Time we shall have her support.

Pingat Jasa Malaysia (Malaysian Service Medal)

Dear Ms Keeble,

I am sure that I can count on your support for Don Touhig's 10 Minute Bill Rule following PM's Questions on Wednesday, 21st May 2008, should you be available on the day. It may or may not go to a vote, but we see it as a chance, at least, to bring it to the attention of Parliament. I have been given to understand that HMG does not usually support such Bills, however, although in a reply to a letter to me he gave the same answer reflecting his Advisers claim that it would be contrary to the 5 year long standing rule and the double medalling rule, both of which have proved to be arbitrary and applied on the whim of the HD Committee, he is however, apparently regarded by many as the Champion of all Veterans.

You may recall that much difficulty has been encounted, includng recourse to the Freedom of Information Act in trying to obtain evidence that Her Majesty herself actually signed the document which stated that the PJM could be accepted but not worn. Evidence has been obtained that in fact the Statement was contained in what might be called an informal note (rather then a formal letter) from Sir Robert Janvrin to the Secretary of State (Jack Straw) -

"Dear Secretary of State

Thank you for your letter of the 19th December. The Queen has approved the recommendation of the HD Committee Meeting of the 7th December that the Pingat Jasa Malaysia may be accepted but not worn by those eligible to receive it.


Yours ever,

Robin
Sir Robin Janvirn*
Private Secretary to the Queen".

*Janvirn is the name typed on the letter! (not JANVRIN)

an FCO reference is given on the letter - 193117/05

My only comment is that this 'note' raised both eyebrows and comments!

Yours sincerely

David Dilley

My letter to my new MP.

Dear John Greenway,

I have recently moved from the constituency of Mr Hugh Bayley, City of York MP, (with whom I have had numerous communications regarding the issue of the Honours and Decorations Committees advice to Her Majesty that the Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal, awarded to British Veterans by the Agong, Government and People of Malaysia, may be accepted but not worn)to your constituency.

I am delighted to see that you have supported the wearing of this medal by virtue of your signature on Don Touhig's EDM 356, in the 2006/7 session. For this I offer you my sincere thanks.

You may be aware that Don Touhig has also secured a Ten Minute Rule on the 21st of May, immediately following Prime Ministers Questions.

I ask for your support to this amendment in both spirit, and by vote should it be put to such a vote. You will be aware of the considerable support to our cause from all sides of the House.

The following link
http://www.fight4thepjm.org/documents/Press_Release_240408.pdf

leads to a Press Release earlier this week following a meeting with Derek Twigg, Veterans Minister and two of our committee members from "www.fight4thePJM.org" which is an online site which has only one objective, seeks no funding and has no political agenda. It is also a source of considerable information and background to a fight which exceeds two years as I write and will go on as long as it takes.

We are certainly not a group which can claim to be youthful but we are as committed and determined to win this as we were so many years ago in Malaya/Malaysia.

We seek only to right what we believe is a great wrong to 35,000 British veterans of the Malayan Emergency and Confrontation some 40 years ago, who among all Commonwealth Forces, only the British have been refused permission to wear this medal. Our comrades from Australia and New Zealand with whom we served have received such permission to wear this medal, from Her Majesty the Queen. Acceptance of this medal was initially refused and only accepted after a twelve month fight.

I believe this to be a direct insult to the people of Malaysia who are recognising, at their great expense, the contribution made by Commonwealth Forces to their Independence as a free nation not forgetting the significant sacrifice the Malaysian people themselves paid in lives and injury through that difficult period of their history.

It is also an insult not only to the 35,000 veterans who survived but most importantly, to the 519 of our comrades who paid the supreme price and are not here to fight this great injustice caused by the actions of an unelected (and apparently unanswerable to Parliament) committee. We are honoured to fight on their behalf and on behalf of their families. This medal is also awarded posthumously.

Their answer is that they protect the "integrity of the Imperial Honours system.........I say what integrity.

This discredited Committee have consistently trotted out the same old mantra re "double medalling" and "5 year rule" which has time and again been discredited by evidence to the contrary that where it suits, these rules are cast aside. You will see in the Press Release that over 40 examples of this have been presented.

Thank you for reading this letter and I trust that you will feel able to give the support I request.

Yours sincerely,


_________________
Pingat Kami - Hak Kami
651 Signal Troop,
Semengo Camp,
Kuching.

To Barry and Paul .
I greatfully appreciate it, in you organising and meeting the veterans minister. I'm sure things will now move, albeit slowly in our direction.
Thanks
Roy.

I have appraised all my contacts in the political and media field and Robert Key, another great champion of the Forces replies thus,

Well done John!

Best wishes from Robert.

Robert Key
Member of Parliament for Salisbury
House of Commons
London SW1A 0AA
Tel: 01722 323050
e-mail: rob@robertkey.com

I have advised my lot of the 10 Minute Rule Debate.