... a Crown Servant, I mean!

Following our discovery of the London Gazette Notice in which The Queen gives eligible British citizens the right to wear their medal, I have seen much discussion on the Forum regarding who is, and who is not, a Crown Servant (a critical element to the eligibility qualification).

The civil servants answering questions from PJMers on this seem to be all at sea. They shouldn't be. If they are on top of their job they should know about these two papers:









Last edited by BarryF on Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

Here is the London Gazette Notice that says that if you're not a Crown Servant when the PJM is conferred on you (e.g. if you are retired from the forces), you can wear your medal:



Those papers from the National Archives defining Crown Service confirm I meet the eligibility criteria of the London Gazette Notice - and so do most PJMers.

So I was, but I'm not .... so I couldn't, but now I can!


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

Top notch stuff there Barry. I have it in writing from the MoD that I am not a Crown Servant, Mr R T Coney makes a claim to me that I am and that neither of his staff informed me that I wasn't a CS, pity he didn't do his research right, the MoD employs a lot of people in an awful lot of offices


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We have previously published these pages from the National Archives, but here is the document again from the TNA that clearly states that the only people NOT eligible to wear their PJMs are those who were in Crown Service when the medal was conferred upon them.

It was NOT during "my official life time" that the PJM was conferred on me in 2005/6. We can't be sure of the exact date because the civil servants aren't sure because The Queen didn't sign anything and the civil servants forgot to brief the Foreign Secretary that they had 'fixed' everything (in December 2005) so he was all at sea in the Commons when a question was put to him about the PJM decision (in January 2006) .... ZZZzzzz! So tight is their Honours in Confidence system that nobody knows what is going on and the elected Minister responsible, none other than the Foreign Secretary, was the last to hear that he had made a decision! No wonder he (Jack Straw - now Minister for Justice!) later confessed in Parliament that he didn't understand what the devil haps been going on (I paraphrase).

Anyway, no matter how buttock-clenchingly miffed the civil servants may be about our discovery of the London Gazette Notice, I am satisfied that I am eligible under the London Gazette Notice to wear my PJM.






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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

Barry,

Your question: "Are you still one, because you were one".

Now then, that is a question I would like to ask many of those in the Ceremonial Departments of the MOD DS Sec (particularly one!) and the Cabinet Office and FCO. Were they and are they still *****? I think so (mustn't use naughty words).

PS: remember, many of us are elderly so careful on the excitement; I think a cup of tea and a lay down are called for! (only joking).

PPS: We have to rely on research I suppose; since they don't take minutes, they have nothing to leave on trains, buses, taxis, etc. that would be useful to us!

Last, but not least, thank you and the team for doing such a wonderful job,

Sincerely,

David



Last edited by GLOman on Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

David,

Clearly a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

If the Civil serpents did not know of the documentation that existed, I think they do now.

As I have said before; if it exists, then we will root it out, much to their embarrassment.

I reckon that all of the research team ought to get the MBE for services to the crown, exposing wrong doing.

Yours Aye

Arthur

Here the London Gazette Notice is promulgated to Missions (eventually to be transmitted to the Malaysians) telling them about the Queen's decision that if she says you can receive it and, if eligible, you can wear it.

This Notice spells out that you are eligible if the PJM was conferred when you were not in Crown Service.

So you can wear it.

This is what everyone expected to be the case ... and why everyone considers that their natural expectations were destroyed for a political imperative ... or becausae of a cock-up ... or because of bl**dy mindedness on the part of some dinosaurs.




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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

That is clear and unequivocal, I note that in Para 2 the wording 'private citizen' appears, this crops up on other TNA files, it would appear that this terminology was used more than the oft quoted [today] Crown Servant.


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Game set and match to the PJM team I think.

Lets see how they parry this particular thrust

Yours aye

Arthur

I wonder who wrote Congratulations on the top of the document?

Item 3 of course is a crucial paragraph as this has never been rescinded and I have it in writing from The LG that these notices are 'set in stone'

Anyone care to challenge the Cabinet Office Ceremonial Secretariat or The FCO on this matter........?


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Got 'em !! Wonderful work chaps. Would I be wrong in sendiing copies of all these letters to my MP? If not then I'll get on to it right away.

Tony


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Veni vidi vinci

Kentsboro wrote:

Got 'em !! Wonderful work chaps. Would I be wrong in sendiing copies of all these letters to my MP? If not then I'll get on to it right away.

Tony

Tony,

Please use anything I have placed here. Best to point out that the documents have been photographed at The National Archives and are therefore TNA copyright.

Hope you are keeping well,

Barry


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BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia

BarryF wrote:

We have previously published these pages from the National Archives, but here is the document again from the TNA that clearly states that the only people NOT eligible to wear their PJMs are those who were in Crown Service when the medal was conferred upon them.

It was NOT during "my official life time" that the PJM was conferred on me in 2005/6. We can't be sure of the exact date because the civil servants aren't sure because The Queen didn't sign anything and the civil servants forgot to brief the Foreign Secretary that they had 'fixed' everything (in December 2005) so he was all at sea in the Commons when a question was put to him about the PJM decision (in January 2006) .... ZZZzzzz! So tight is their Honours in Confidence system that nobody knows what is going on and the elected Minister responsible, none other than the Foreign Secretary, was the last to hear that he had made a decision! No wonder he (Jack Straw - now Minister for Justice!) later confessed in Parliament that he didn't understand what the devil haps been going on (I paraphrase).

Anyway, no matter how buttock-clenchingly miffed the civil servants may be about our discovery of the London Gazette Notice, I am satisfied that I am eligible under the London Gazette Notice to wear my PJM.

....Let me assure all readers that the search for documentary evidence of the justification of the PJM case has been conducted and will continue to be conducted, with all necessary zeal, by dedicated researchers....all of whom demonstrate the determined persistence of a forensic proctologist ....a qualification most appropriate to what Barry eloquently describes as that 'buttock-clenching' condition prevalent among certain members of the civil service.


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...................'Jock'
Paroi...Rasah...Batu Signals Troop.

I reckon that all of the research team ought to get the MBE for services to the crown, exposing wrong doing.


Trouble is, the people who ultimately decide who gets the MBE's etc are the very people who are being exposed.
Well done lads and make sure you're wearing a mask when you are blowing all that dust off.

Owen

owen lawrence wrote:

I reckon that all of the research team ought to get the MBE for services to the crown, exposing wrong doing.


Owen

Would that make us a CROWN SERVANT Owen? I must look in my next cereal packet to see what free gift I have been awarded...........


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