Image of the PJM Medal
Banner Text = Fight For the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal
Reply to topic Page 1 of 3
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Formal wearing of PJM Medal
Author Message
Reply with quote
Post Formal wearing of PJM Medal 
Copy of post to Royal website

I am writing to express my disgust at the recommendation by the HD committee not to allow eligible UK Malay/Borneo veterans to wear the PJM medal on formal occasions. Both the Australian and New Zealand governments have recognised the importance of this generous award from the King of Malaysia and the Malaysian people. Much publicity was given to the presentation of this medal to the Governor General of Australia who was proud to wear it alongside his other awards. The decision not to allow formal wearing of the PJM medal by UK veterans is hypocritical, out of touch with the modern era and is an embarrassment to her majesty who's own family formally wear overseas commemorative awards. This is an injustice that should be remedied at the earliest opportunity.

Ivor Rich
Malay/Borneo veteran 63/65

View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post  
Great letter George....absolutely exemplary!

'Jock'

View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: Why will the Labour party not allow veterans wear the P 
George F wrote:


Subject: Why will the Labour party not allow 35,000 veterans wear the PJM medal?

Finally, Mr Pearson when is HMG going to do the decent thing and make a statement allowing veterans to wear the PJM medal at Mr Brown's Annual day to honour UK veterans.?

Thanks for your indefatigable lobbying, George. This is another great letter. It will appear on our What We Say page as soon as it is launched!


_________________
BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post When is formal not formal? 
Last week I sent an email to the Medal News in the hope that they would publish our campaign. Their first response was that we were allowed to wear the PJM. When I gave them chapter and verse, I got a modified version, as attached.

My Interpretation is that this medal is to be awarded, and worn, but FORMAL permission will not be granted so as not to set a precedent. It is quite clear that the committee “has recommended that an exception to two of the long-established Rules governing the accepting and WEARING of foreign (including Commonwealth) awards be made”.
I do appreciate what you are saying but the inclusion of the word “formal” in the statement is the key – if these medals were not to be worn at all then the word formal would have been dropped and the sentence would take on a whole new meaning. It’s Government speak for “We’re backing down but we don’t want you to know we’re backing down”.
I think, to be honest, this is probably about as much blood as you will get out of this particular stone, I can’t see the Government backing down further than they have, and whilst informal permission is not exactly what was wanted it is better than no permission at all!
Kind Regards
Philip Mussell
Marketing Manager


_________________
Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Timeline 
I know it's probably early days yet, but has anyone got an inkling as to when the PJM will start to come our way? Question


_________________
Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post When is formal not formal? 
An interesting addition from the Medal News. I count this as support.

Actually Mr Law having spoken only today to a Yeoman of the Guard I can guarantee that the eligible “Beefeaters” will be wearing their PJMs and already wear the Saudi Arabian Kuwait liberation medal and others of a similar ilk - so if you find yourself locked up in the Tower at least you will be in good company!



As to wearing your medal when you choose – I think you should do just that and I for one would have strong words to anyone who challenged your right to do so.



Kind Regards



Philip Mussell


_________________
Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Re: When is formal not formal? 
GerryL wrote:
It’s Government speak for “We’re backing down but we don’t want you to know we’re backing down”.
I think, to be honest, this is probably about as much blood as you will get out of this particular stone, I can’t see the Government backing down further than they have, and whilst informal permission is not exactly what was wanted it is better than no permission at all!

Gerry, I have been told exactly the same thing - that 'formal' means 'wear it if you want'.

The problem, though, is one of medallic integrity. Despite all indications to the contrary, I am on record as a supporter of British Medals Policy, and I am quite sure that under the rules the PJM should have been an unrestricted recommendation. It's a question of mindset - the HD Committee's. They had to climb down (after the major lobbying that everyone did post January 2005 when HMG had said "No") to accept the medal at all. They could have had the courage to make the award unrestricted in all the circumstances. They did not. They put The Queen in the position of making us somehow different to the Aussies and teh Kiwis - we are now'second class' citizens despite being the only ones to have fought throughout in all areas of Malaysia.

The guarded word 'formal' renders the PJM unwearable. That is the bottom line. And I shall continue fighting for the right to wear it honourably. I believe that it is not better than no permission at all! It's an insult and a snub. One that has to be rectified in one way or another. Reversals have happened before (Suez Canala Zone and the Russian medals, for example) - we can encourage another.

Thanks for sending in this very useful opinion. Barry


_________________
BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Re: Timeline 
GerryL wrote:
I know it's probably early days yet, but has anyone got an inkling as to when the PJM will start to come our way? Question

The Kiwis and Aussies are first in the queue thanks to the British Government poncing about for a year. I'm happy for our Commonwealth friends and allies to get their medal when they can, but news from down under is that they expect it will take 'several years'. The same will apply to the Brits. Past experience is not encouraging!


_________________
BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Re: When is formal not formal? 
GerryL wrote:
An interesting addition from the Medal News. I count this as support.

Actually Mr Law having spoken only today to a Yeoman of the Guard I can guarantee that the eligible “Beefeaters” will be wearing their PJMs and already wear the Saudi Arabian Kuwait liberation medal and others of a similar ilk - so if you find yourself locked up in the Tower at least you will be in good company!

As to wearing your medal when you choose – I think you should do just that and I for one would have strong words to anyone who challenged your right to do so.

Great stuff! But doesn't all that underline the inanity of the HD Committee decision - a recommendatiion that is unenforceable. It was so meanminded that it really does beggar belief.


_________________
BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Re: When is formal not formal? 
.[/quote]...As to wearing your medal when you choose – I think you should do just that and I for one would have strong words to anyone who challenged your right to do so.[/quote]

Well guys...

It's all becoming a bit obtuse and complicated for a simple lad like me...splitting semantic hairs between two definitions of the noun 'permission' sounds to me like... 'Go ahead and wear the medal if you want lads...but we are still the masters of the word and can revoke your wearing privileges any damned time we wish'....this attitude may very well serve to justify the 'bunker mentality' of the chinless wonders of the HD Committee, but it doesn't fly for me!

For my money, I'm either FULLY entitled or I'm not entitled at all....simplistic as that may sound.

And...as for how long it's going to take before we actually hold our PJM?...The MOD will surely be the slowest element in the process, on that you can rely brothers!...It will operate at something approximating GLACIAL speed!...I suspect that many of the PJM's applied for will ultimately be delivered posthumously...which is, of course, the ultimate method of ensuring that 'formal permission' to wear becomes an incontestable issue.

I say we 'soldier on', regardless...

'Jock'.

View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: When is formal not formal? 
'Jock' Fenton wrote:


For my money, I'm either FULLY entitled or I'm not entitled at all....simplistic as that may sound.

I say we 'soldier on', regardless...

'Jock'.

That says it all for me, too, Jock.

Nothing has changed - the PJM was intended to be a wearable medal, and I won't rest until it is.

And if we take just a few minutes to reflect on what has been perpetrated here ... are we really going to sit back and accept that we are second class ex-servicemen when compared with our mates 'down under'? We were part of the only successful campaign against terrorism on that scale. It was a war, but the it was never declared because, if it had been, the planters and miners would have had no insurance cover.

As so often in Britain, success breeds contempt - the privileged few just do not want our success to be acknowledged.

Err ... watch this space!


_________________
BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Continue the Fight! 
I agree that the fight should continue. This campaign is showing up all of the flaws in the Establishment - MP's who don't give a jot for the people they are elected to represent, Civil Servants who are anything but civil. One of my colleagues fired off a letter to her MP at the weekend and I've got the rest of them looking at our web site. I intend to work on them until they show support for us. It's going to be hard fight but I refuse to be browbeaten in myown land by a bunch of self-serving, hypocritical nobodies. I shall have some interesting questions for wannabe MP's at the next election.
GerryL


_________________
Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Re: When is formal not formal? 
GerryL wrote:

Actually Mr Law having spoken only today to a Yeoman of the Guard I can guarantee that the eligible “Beefeaters” will be wearing their PJMs


Gerry, The opinions we have received, that 'formal' might mean "OK by us, but don't quote us chaps", might lead some into a false sense of security and, as a result, decide that the fight is not worth fighting. I have therefore published a letter I received immediately after the Ministerial Statement which casts a different, and totally unambiguous, light on this issue.

The letter I received is from the Ceremonial Secretariat of the Cabinet Office - the people who organise the HD Committee and who are ultimately responsible for managing review processes such as that to which the PJM has been subjected. They are the horse’s mouth.

The Cabinet Office letter is on the main web site - please click on The PJM at the top of this page, then click Cabinet Office Letter or click here
http://www.fight4thepjm.org/the_pjm_cabinet_office_letter_1.htm.

The letter and my comments on that page will explain why I shall not give up this fight.


_________________
BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Re: When is formal not formal? 
GerryL wrote:
Last week I sent an email to the Medal News in the hope that they would publish our campaign. Their first response was that we were allowed to wear the PJM. When I gave them chapter and verse, I got a modified version, as attached.

My Interpretation is that this medal is to be awarded, and worn, but FORMAL permission will not be granted so as not to set a precedent. It is quite clear that the committee “has recommended that an exception to two of the long-established Rules governing the accepting and WEARING of foreign (including Commonwealth) awards be made”.
I do appreciate what you are saying but the inclusion of the word “formal” in the statement is the key – if these medals were not to be worn at all then the word formal would have been dropped and the sentence would take on a whole new meaning. It’s Government speak for “We’re backing down but we don’t want you to know we’re backing down”.
I think, to be honest, this is probably about as much blood as you will get out of this particular stone, I can’t see the Government backing down further than they have, and whilst informal permission is not exactly what was wanted it is better than no permission at all!
Kind Regards
Philip Mussell
Marketing Manager


Philip Mussell is forgetting a simple fact.

It is not HM Government that is presenting this medal.

It is the Agong and Government of Malaysia. A Sovereign country and a Member of the Commonwealth.

I would imagine that to them this palaver, is an insult.

Indeed, I am insulted too.

John Feltham
Veteran of Sarawak, Brunei, North Borneo (Now Sabah), and Malaysia.

Townsville
Australia


_________________
Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.
View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: When is formal not formal? 
[quote="BarryF"]
GerryL wrote:



The letter I received is from the Ceremonial Secretariat of the Cabinet Office - the people who organise the HD Committee and who are ultimately responsible for managing review processes such as that to which the PJM has been subjected. They are the horse’s mouth.



Barry, I think that somehow, you have got the wrong orifice of the horse to describe this Committee. Their actions prove it.

John Feltham
Townsville
Australia


_________________
Merdeka, Merdeka, Merdeka,
from the HD Committee and its decision.
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:
Reply to topic Page 1 of 3
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum