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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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Armistice Day Saturday November 11th 2006
I just wonder if there will be any forum members attending this ceremony as pointed out to me by another forum member
http://www.rsa.org.nz/review/art2006august/article_1.htm
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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:28 pm |
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Smudger
Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 137
Location: Stockport
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John I shall be in London from the Friday so I shall take what ever opportunity arises to mark the day.[/i][/b]
_________________ Hold the line steady boys.
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:55 am |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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Smudger wrote:John I shall be in London from the Friday so I shall take what ever opportunity arises to mark the day.[/i][/b]
Smudger
Well done, spot those wearing their PJMs please and if poss have a word in HMs Shell Like from all of us!
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:39 pm |
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Smudger
Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 137
Location: Stockport
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John Cooper wrote:Smudger wrote:John I shall be in London from the Friday so I shall take what ever opportunity arises to mark the day.[/i][/b]
Smudger
Well done, spot those wearing their PJMs please and if poss have a word in HMs Shell Like from all of us!
John I'm hoping that those who have the PJM or replica will meet up at the tea wagon (aka Cha Wallah's tent)on Horseguards for a team photo.
_________________ Hold the line steady boys.
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Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:13 am |
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GerryL
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 423
Location: West Sussex
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A Thought at Armsitice Time
I have just sent this to Edge and Brennan. You may gather that I am rather angry. We have behaved in an honourable and dignified manner throughout this campaign but still we fed with the same half-truths, obfuscations and bovine excrement. We shall shortly be commemorating the loss of British lives in a multitude of conflicts around the globe and over many decades and yet a section of British Veterans are treated as second class citizens in what used to be called the British Commonwealth.
Gentlemen
The ongoing discussion concerning the PJM has raised a point that I have been
debating in my mind for some weeks. I have been told that I may wear the medal as it is something that cannot be policed, but to do so would be discourteous to Her Majesty. But wearing it on Remembrance Day Parades will be part of the way in which I can honour the lives lost in the jungles of Malaysia. I have rationalised it thus:
1. Her Majesty occupies her position by an act of birth - you can say that she was born to serve the country. As an ex Serviceman I still hold to the Oath of Allegiance that I swore in 1960 and would not wish to be discourteous to her in anyway.
2. Those who never returned from any theatre of war, were there largely because politicians, and by default their Civil Servants, set up the situations which ultimately led to the deaths of those valiant people. They were not there by an act of birth, but one of sacrifice. If HM does not like the conditions of her job, she can abdicate - no such option was available to those who wore the uniform of the Services. If she knows that she is being ill-advised, she can change things. If she then deliberately chooses to ignore the wishes of the people in favour of the archaic mindsets of a few highly placed Civil Servants then I'm afraid she is as guilty as they are. If she is unaware of the unrest amongst her subjects, then I'm afraid that old military maxim comes into play - ignorance is no excuse.
So I have decided that given a choice of 2 allegiances, I shall go with those who paid the ultimate price. I would not feel at ease knowing that I have put their sacrifice after allegiance or subservience to what is fast being revealed as a corrupt and self-serving hierarchy. I shall be marching down Whitehall on Sunday morning with my PJM alongside my GSM and if anyone does not like it, that is unfortunate but tough. The Oath of Allegiance to Her Majesty, her Heirs and Successors is not binding beyond the date of my leaving the Service, although I have always treated it as though it were. The treatment meted out to 35 000 loyal Veterans has indicated that our views count for nothing within the privileged corridors of power and so I no longer feel obliged to regard the existing system as worthy of my subordinate attitude.
Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)
_________________ Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)
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Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:42 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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Excellent letter Gerry! Even if they do not reply to you the message has been delivered, well done!
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Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:52 pm |
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Dave Woolmer
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 48
Location: East Sussex
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Gerry,
Well said. My sentiments exactly. When HM departs this mortal coil then my allegiance to the Monarchy ceases.
_________________ I like it here on MY planet. If you wish to visit, you are welcome,
but your sanity is not my responsibilty!
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Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:27 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:27 pm |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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Re: A Thought at Armsitice Time
GerryL wrote:I have just sent this to Edge and Brennan. You may gather that I am rather angry.
Me, too, Gerry.
Thanks for saying this ... you speak for me also.
If The Queen is, as they say, the Fountain of all Honours, then her advisors should ensure that she is aware of the honour represented by the PJM... the honour of the Malaysian people ... the honour of those who did not return ... the honour of the families of those who did not return ...the honour of those who served.
She, they, can't have it both ways. They have to earn loyalty. As we all do. You can't buy it. You can't dictate it. You can’t inherit it – not nowadays, anyway.
They have a bloody nerve to suggest that this must all be one way traffic and we should be grateful to be given a trinket to be polished at home but which must never see the light of day. Blind allegiance went out of the window decades ago. About the 11th November 1918 to be more precise.
The Queen is the Head of the Commonwealth. But that position is not hereditary. The next Head of the Commonwealth will be elected. What chance Prince Charles?
What do you think any other Head of the Commonwealth would have agreed to in respect of the PJM? Do you believe that any other Head of the Commonwealth would approve a recommendation along the lines of "Err ... PJM? Give it to the Aussies, guys. Oh yes ... and the Kiwis. Why not, Jimbo. As for the Brits ... stuff'em ... they were the only ones to serve in every area of 'Malaysia' (wherever that is) and throughout the whole of PJM service (whatever that was) so they don't friggin' deserve a gong (a Malaysian word, by the way). 'Serves' ‘em right as they served us right.”
I can’t see any Head of the Commonwealth approving that sort of discrimination.
And I don’t think our Queen did either.
The suits are hammering the last nails into the coffin of a benign and much loved monarchy.
And I am very sad about that.
Barry
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:30 pm |
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jireland
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 566
Location: Wiltshire
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I am with you guys and my allegiance whilst rock solid is being tested to the limits
John
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Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:01 am |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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Re: A Thought at Armsitice Time
BarryF wrote:[What do you think any other Head of the Commonwealth would have agreed to in respect of the PJM? Do you believe that any other Head of the Commonwealth would approve a recommendation along the lines of "Err ... PJM? Give it to the Aussies, guys. Oh yes ... and the Kiwis. Why not, Jimbo. As for the Brits ... stuff'em ... they were the only ones to serve in every area of 'Malaysia' (wherever that is) and throughout the whole of PJM service (whatever that was) so they don't friggin' deserve a gong (a Malaysian word, by the way). 'Serves' ‘em right as they served us right.”
I can’t see any Head of the Commonwealth approving that sort of discrimination.
And I don’t think our Queen did either.
The suits are hammering the last nails into the coffin of a benign and much loved monarchy.
And I am very sad about that.
Barry
I have no proof (yet) but I don't think The Queen signed that document, I think that the letter was signed by proxy, for two reasons ..........
1> The way you say it above
2> HMGs letters to me obfuscating WHO actually signed this document, I am prevented under the FoIA of finding out that information, I have, again, requested a straight forward YES/NO as to 'did HMQ sign the order'.
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Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:35 am |
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Jon Windust
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Portsmouth(Havant) UK
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Wearing the PJM on Remembrance Sunday
I shall be wearing my PJM alongside my other medals on Sunday 12/11/06 when I parade the RN and RM Gunnery and Missile Instructors Association Standard at St Barbara Church HMS Excellent .There will be three of us there wearing the PJM.(With pride).
_________________ Regards Aye.Jon Windust
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Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:27 pm |
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John Cooper
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2158
Location: Suffolk
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...............well this is good news in my book too, are we seeing some compassion at last..........
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6127832.stm
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HD Committee: Amateurs in a Professional World
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Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:32 pm |
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BarryF
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2721
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
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John Cooper wrote:...............well this is good news in my book too, are we seeing some compassion at last..........
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6127832.stm
I see that Lord "on your bike" Tebbit stays true to form.
_________________ BarryF, who fought for the Right to Wear the Pingat Jasa Malaysia
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Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:39 pm |
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GerryL
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 423
Location: West Sussex
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Armistice Day 2006
Carol and I attended the ceremony in County Mall in Crawley this morning. Mine was the only PJM on show and I noticed that it attracted a few glances. I also noticed that a couple of the RBL officials were wearing their single "commemoratives" in the place where their "official" medals would have been had they been wearing them. One young lad, who has been accepted into the Royal Artillery, asked what my medals were. He also asked me for any advice that he might find useful. I told him to work hard, not to get into trouble (or at least not to get caught) and to accept that Service life is not an 8 to 5 job.
GerryL
_________________ Gerald Law (ex RAF Borneo Veteran)
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Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:08 pm |
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